I wish this wasn't couched in the language of "left" and "right", as it allows a large portion of those indoctrinated in (and thus engaged in, even if they are not consciously aware) dehumanization to do the standard "not me, I'm one of the good ones".
The entire concept of the mislabelled "age of discovery", and colonization of the continents which Europeans branded as the "Americas" after Italian Amerigo Vespucci, is based on dehumanization. I don’t hang around many people who would self-identify as being “far right” or even “right wing”, but I hear this othering all the time from self-identified “progressives”.
There are so many books I’ve read that discuss why it is so hard to discuss dehumanizing with those who have been indoctrinated since birth in that “othering”.
Dehumanization is not a "human" trait, but a cultural trait.
Generating an “other” that can be dehumanized is, for instance, the entire purpose the British/American and other Western European countries and colonies had for creating the hierarchical social construct of “race”. Racism is alive and well, in both the “left” and “right”, within the British North American settler-colonial societies of USA and Canada.
Getting individuals who self-identify as “left” or “progressive” to recognize and dismantle the systems of dehumanization that they are part of is key to change. Thus far all I have seen is “our dehumanization” vs “their dehumanization”.
I agree that it is a cultural trait, but whether people see themselves as the good ones or as Mitchell and Web joked "one of the baddies" is a different issue, that relates more to peer pressure than feeling righteous.
Maybe it is because I'm Autistic, but I've found the line between "peer pressure" and "feeling righteous" to be very thin with all the performing and virtue signalling.
I’ve seen this with the destruction of the term “woke” from its AAVE origins, to the misappropriation by White Liberals (sleepwalkers chanting “not me”) to White Conservatives who are opposing the dehumanizing virtue signalling of White liberals (who also have no clue what the AAVE term “woke” ever meant, and are talking about something entirely different).
I believe the desire to individually "fit in", even if what they are fitting into is seriously flawed, is itself problematic. Social conformity is trivial to manipulate with social programming, especially within the social hierarchies which Western societies seem to build. (This includes the top-down corporate-party-brand-centric governance structures that Canada is increasingly adopting, to the detriment of more participatory democratic ideals).
I find social lying, “reading between the lines”, and cultural specific shortcuts, to be extremely confusing. I wish more people were more open and honest. I know many believe social lying is kindness or polite, but that presumes a neuronormativity that is itself dehumanizing to the fairly large population which are neurodivergent in some way.
(I deleted much of what I wrote, as it read as a long infodump. This is indicative that I find these conversations very interesting. Thanks so much for hosting these discussions. I'm checking out the video podcast, and continuing to read more of the older articles).
Very well said. It's hard when people label us to not accept them without seeming hostile, which in turn would allow "that label." I think you pointed out exactly what the "script" requires if we're going to dismantle something so hard to grasp (conceptual dehumanization and othering)
Unfortunately, we are all guilty of othering. Simple as us versus them. We find it easier to trust those that are like us, part of our tribe. This does not make it acceptable. Hillary Clinton was chastised for calling maga supporters deplorables. I find myself, not so secretly, agreeing with her and my humanity is diminished.
It's great to admit this, see it, and work on it. Even if you're barely scratching at the surface, keep scratching. Rivers erode mountains, but it doesn't happen overnight. I'm impressed and inspired by your self-awareness and honesty. This is how humanity improves: with self-reflection and positive goals. :)
Dude, I can't restack five hundred million quotes from each article. Can you just be a *little less* prolific? I don't want to other your content, but it's amazing!!!! :) Seriously, this was something I really needed!!!
Thanks! Although to what you wrote on your note, I'm still of two minds as to whether we can or cannot dehumanize those who dehumanize. It might be a reap what you sow argument, don't dehumanize, because you will be dehumanized, but if someone else chooses dehumanization, give them what they ask for? lol
I think this help helps me figure something out: all humans are capable of changing their mind, so when you dehumanize someone you are basically saying that they're incapable of changing their mind.
So even at the very top with people like Elon Musk and Donald Trump, we must assume that they are capable of changing their mind, or else we are dehumanizing them... and so that has to be our strategy: how do you reach these people and have them change their own mind?
I wish this wasn't couched in the language of "left" and "right", as it allows a large portion of those indoctrinated in (and thus engaged in, even if they are not consciously aware) dehumanization to do the standard "not me, I'm one of the good ones".
The entire concept of the mislabelled "age of discovery", and colonization of the continents which Europeans branded as the "Americas" after Italian Amerigo Vespucci, is based on dehumanization. I don’t hang around many people who would self-identify as being “far right” or even “right wing”, but I hear this othering all the time from self-identified “progressives”.
There are so many books I’ve read that discuss why it is so hard to discuss dehumanizing with those who have been indoctrinated since birth in that “othering”.
Dehumanization is not a "human" trait, but a cultural trait.
Generating an “other” that can be dehumanized is, for instance, the entire purpose the British/American and other Western European countries and colonies had for creating the hierarchical social construct of “race”. Racism is alive and well, in both the “left” and “right”, within the British North American settler-colonial societies of USA and Canada.
Getting individuals who self-identify as “left” or “progressive” to recognize and dismantle the systems of dehumanization that they are part of is key to change. Thus far all I have seen is “our dehumanization” vs “their dehumanization”.
https://r.flora.ca/p/should-you-be-upset-at-individual
I agree that it is a cultural trait, but whether people see themselves as the good ones or as Mitchell and Web joked "one of the baddies" is a different issue, that relates more to peer pressure than feeling righteous.
Maybe it is because I'm Autistic, but I've found the line between "peer pressure" and "feeling righteous" to be very thin with all the performing and virtue signalling.
I’ve seen this with the destruction of the term “woke” from its AAVE origins, to the misappropriation by White Liberals (sleepwalkers chanting “not me”) to White Conservatives who are opposing the dehumanizing virtue signalling of White liberals (who also have no clue what the AAVE term “woke” ever meant, and are talking about something entirely different).
I believe the desire to individually "fit in", even if what they are fitting into is seriously flawed, is itself problematic. Social conformity is trivial to manipulate with social programming, especially within the social hierarchies which Western societies seem to build. (This includes the top-down corporate-party-brand-centric governance structures that Canada is increasingly adopting, to the detriment of more participatory democratic ideals).
I find social lying, “reading between the lines”, and cultural specific shortcuts, to be extremely confusing. I wish more people were more open and honest. I know many believe social lying is kindness or polite, but that presumes a neuronormativity that is itself dehumanizing to the fairly large population which are neurodivergent in some way.
https://psychcentral.com/blog/aspie/2018/09/allism-spectrum-disorders-a-parody
(I deleted much of what I wrote, as it read as a long infodump. This is indicative that I find these conversations very interesting. Thanks so much for hosting these discussions. I'm checking out the video podcast, and continuing to read more of the older articles).
Very well said. It's hard when people label us to not accept them without seeming hostile, which in turn would allow "that label." I think you pointed out exactly what the "script" requires if we're going to dismantle something so hard to grasp (conceptual dehumanization and othering)
Unfortunately, we are all guilty of othering. Simple as us versus them. We find it easier to trust those that are like us, part of our tribe. This does not make it acceptable. Hillary Clinton was chastised for calling maga supporters deplorables. I find myself, not so secretly, agreeing with her and my humanity is diminished.
It's great to admit this, see it, and work on it. Even if you're barely scratching at the surface, keep scratching. Rivers erode mountains, but it doesn't happen overnight. I'm impressed and inspired by your self-awareness and honesty. This is how humanity improves: with self-reflection and positive goals. :)
Dude, I can't restack five hundred million quotes from each article. Can you just be a *little less* prolific? I don't want to other your content, but it's amazing!!!! :) Seriously, this was something I really needed!!!
Thanks! Although to what you wrote on your note, I'm still of two minds as to whether we can or cannot dehumanize those who dehumanize. It might be a reap what you sow argument, don't dehumanize, because you will be dehumanized, but if someone else chooses dehumanization, give them what they ask for? lol
snake eating its tail...totally agree!!! madness!
I think this help helps me figure something out: all humans are capable of changing their mind, so when you dehumanize someone you are basically saying that they're incapable of changing their mind.
So even at the very top with people like Elon Musk and Donald Trump, we must assume that they are capable of changing their mind, or else we are dehumanizing them... and so that has to be our strategy: how do you reach these people and have them change their own mind?
by example?